Vì sao Nga mua tàu đổ bộ Mistral

Hớ hớ, đuối lý rồi tự vả mồm khi người khác chưa nói gì, cái món khổ râm này giống ai nhể[]

Mít là một cái phà, còn Nga chở gì là việc của nó, được chưa.
Giá bèo không thì đã có cả phái đoàn do tổng thống Nga chỉ đạo, mềnh không phải tổng thống Nga.
Còn RFI rõ ràng có đưa 500 triệu Oi cả gói, cũng là một thủ đoạn tung tin giả để giấu giá thật, tạo cớ đi đêm..chứng tỏ Pháp phờ bụng muốn dâng hiến cái phần mềm tế nhị, bí mật nhất cho Ngố từ lâu, nay mới có dịp quì gối, nhắm mắt, há mồm đội ơn mưa móc, nhể

Thế à ?
Đuối lý quá à ?
-Mistral là phà chở lợn
-Phà chở lợn có giá bèo.
Phải hay không ?
Thế thôi.

Đã không phải Tổng thống Nga,đang lóp ngóp ở trong "đám ngập ngụa dịch thẩm du" thế mà đ/c Gà tự sướng về "không khí" của cuộc đàm phán ghê thế ?

Phả
i hay không thì bàn đến mấy trăm trang vẫn chưa thủng,thật là chậm tiêu quá đi.
Chỉ biết rằng mẹ phờ nhà pò phải nhắm mắt dâng hiến phần mêmf nhạy cảm vân e thẹn che giấu bấy nay
cũng đành nhắm mắt dạng đùi
để xem thằng ngố nó dùi ra sao.

Cái hệ thống Senit 9 thì Mẫu Quốc Đại Nga đòi thực dân Pháp chuyển giao để Mẹ Nga em nghiên kíu. Nhưng Pháp nó không cho thệ mợi đau. Nga mua tàu thì chỉ có sẵn giao diện cứ thế mà xài kiểu bấm nút A thì phóng tên lửa, nút B thì giật nước bồn cầu, nút C thì mở khoang chở lợn đón tiếp bác gà beo lên thăm[] chứ đòi nắm mã nguồn hay công nghệ làm mấy bộ linh kiện lõi để tự lắp cho mấy tàu đóng về sau ở Nga thì thực dân Pháp nó chối phắt

Mà tin từ báo Nga lề phải bảo có 2 con đã 1,7 tỷ Obama rồi. Thế là thằng cha Sarkozy bóp cổ anh Putin em hơi quá. Anh em bán dầu thô bao nhiêu mới có tí tiền giờ lại bị bọn Pháp nhợn nó trấn lột thế thì đau quá

Em nghe đồn là ở các nước thực dân đế quốc động vật được đối xử rất tử tế. Nên tàu Mistral tuy được thiết kế chở lợn nhưng cũng có các khoang Lợn hạng nhất, Lợn hạng nhì vưn vưn...Nên bác gà em yên tâm là bác lên thăm tàu sẽ được bố trí ở khoang Lợn hạng nhì, các bác Nga vàng khác ở khoang Lợn kinh tế (tương đương hạng Economy của VNA). Còn khoang Lợn hạng nhất hay còn gọi là VIP (Very Important Pig) đương nhiên dành cho bác Fuk em phỏng ạ?

Nếu bọn thực dân không dành cho các bác nhưng vị trí xứng đáng, các bác kiện chúng nó ra tòa án Paris về tội ngược đãi động vật là chúng nó chít.

Mìn anh to mà được vào khoang chở lợn để mudic ngố nó vi xử lý đã may, chỉ sợ phần mềm nhẽo quá nó chả vời.
Còn nga nói rõ là có phần mềm, phần mềm phải giao tiếp đưuợc với vú khí ngố. Và hai tàu sau có li xăng thì phải kèm cả li xăng phần mềm tế nhị và nhạy cảm của mẹ phờ nhà pò chứ sao.
Thôi, có tiền là sướng rồi, đỡ phải đêm hôm mò mẫm như pò/oành, tốt quá

Em dùng chương trình dịch bài trên qua tiếng Anh, đọc cũng được, các bác thông cảm:
What helicopters will complete "Mistral"? Whether truth that is studied delivery of the European helicopters for "Mistral"?

No, purchase of the European helicopters for completion of aviagroup of the universal landing ship "Mistral" isn't planned. It is already obvious that Russian "Mistrals" will be completed planned to renewal of manufacture about 2015 by the modernized helicopters Ka-29M, and also developed ship updating of Ka-52K which too is planned to make by 2015. In November, 2009 when the Mistral came on a visit into St.-Petersburg, in Baltic sea in difficult weather con***ions trial landings of both these helicopters to a deck of UDC which have shown possibility of their use for acquisition of aviagroup of this ship were made. Probably also basing planned to purchase for Navy Ka-226 as the easy car for the educational purposes. It is necessary to notice that generally it is impossible to name a choice of Ka-29M successful as it is bad as transportno-landing for the general defect of all series Ka-27/29 – insufficient volume of a fuselage has. But «for the lack of the stamp we write on idle time».

In general it is necessary to mean that the powerful impulse which will be given purchases of sea helicopters becomes one of positive results of realization of the project on acquisition of Mistrals. If each UDC of this type bears on 16 helicopters the minimum order will make 50 units of Ka-52K and Ka-29M, and by some estimations this number can reach 100 units. Besides, UDC acquisition becomes the ad***ional locomotive for building эскортных the ships of protection of a near and far sea zone of classes "frigate" and "destroyer".

We as a result will receive what systems complete with the ship and what – aren't present? If I remember, in mass-media was said that want to transfer the ship to us not fully completed, and without some control systems of fight against which sale objected in the NATO.

The final technical person of Russian Mistral becomes a result of negotiations which are conducted now. The Russian side initially brought an attention to the question on a technological transfer, including on control systems which are born by the Mistral. Most likely, we переговорщики will manage to achieve ship delivery together with fighting information-operating system SENIT-9 (System of use of the tactical information on the sea) both a control system of connection and fleet SIC-21, however both systems will be in "export" execution with the cut down possibilities. As a result we will receive "Mistral" almost completely complete, but АСБУ SENIT-9 and SIC-21 will be in "export" execution with the cut down possibilities. Won't be NATO «даталинков». Well and, probably, РЛС there will be Russian. Besides, transfer of the production technology of these systems most likely won't occur.


Analogs of "Mistral" in our ship-building programs were? Is? In what a difference and why? Or it nevertheless fiction for the organization of motions in domestic ship-building branch?

In Neva ПКБ about 1970th designing of high-grade UDC of the project 11780 (the code number "Kremenchug") on the sample of the American ships of type Tarawa, but slightly smaller displacement (30 thousand) and constant basing of types Ka-27 bearing to 25 helicopters and Ka-29 was conducted. The project was created in the con***ions of inconsistent requirements from the Navy, wishing to make the ship multi-purpose, with putting on on it of problems of anti-submarine defense, basing of planes of vertical take off and landing, with powerful defensive arms, with high speed of a course, etc. that has led to its excessive complication and rise in price. However the main obstacle for realization of the project 11780 became absence in the USSR free ship-building capacities for its building. In second half 1980th Construction of two UDC of the project 11780 have planned at the Kherson ship-building factory (occupied before civil shipbuilding), however the reduction of military expenses begun during reorganization, and then and disintegration of the USSR haven't allowed to carry out it. Attempts Neva ПКБ to continue workings out of the modified variants of the project "Kremenchug" in 1990th had no development.

As to modern position, how I understand, no analogs of "Mistral" in the Russian ship-building programs in 2000-2008 existing, and for the obvious reasons – such ships weren't considered as priority for the Navy at its modern problems and modern level of financing. That is the fleet had needs and it is more important.

If there is no own ready project of the ship of the given class really our KB, ПКО aren't capable to create it?

Are capable, but the technical project for this purpose is necessary. Such task nobody gave to them and didn't formulate. That once again shows that the idea of purchase of "Mistral" was born out of the Navy (at least, out of regular planning, staff and shipbuilding bodies of the Navy). It is necessary to mean still that the design potential in shipbuilding branch during Post-Soviet time, of course, was seriously reduced, and it is better to concentrate it on designing of the fighting ships - corvettes, frigates and destroyers of new generation, and in more remote prospect and the aviabearing ships.

Ship special-purpose designation in the Russian Navy? In what fighting connection "Mistral" will operate?

The mistral is the ship for realization of distant ocean campaigns, the tool of a global projection of force. By the way, though on the Russian classification it is defined as «the universal landing ship», on French it concerns type of the ships of "a force and command projection». In Russian followed tell «the command-forwarding ship». In this quality it, possibly, also will be applied in the Russian Navy. That is a special-purpose designation too, as at Frenchmen – that is forwarding actions, plus management of forces of fleet as the staff ship.

Russia – the constant councilor of Safety of the United Nations, and this status imposes on our country certain obligations, in particular, on participation in the international humanitarian operations, operations on maintenance of peace, saving, evacuation, counterterrorist and antipiracy operations. In this sense compatibility of information systems of Russian Mistrals with NATO similar systems is necessary very opportunely. Proceeding from the specified problems it is possible to assume that it would be most rational to base Mistrals, first, on Pacific ocean, and, secondly, in Sevastopol. From Black sea it is more convenient to make campaigns in Sredizmemku and therefrom in Red and Arabian sea – the center of piracy activity. Pacific ocean, passages in South East Asia (too, by the way, a zone of the raised piracy activity) and Indian ocean will be further a zone of actions дальневосточых Mistrals, accordingly.

Why "Mistrals"? Than the choice in their advantage is proved, and than they it is better than the analogs of other countries?

Really, in the market are present very strong technically the South Korean and Spanish offer, and the Spanish project of UDC has also export success: the ships of this type were bought by Australia. However from the Russian point of view a fundamental and fatal lack of both these ships is presence there the American systems that does their purchase not simply extremely risky, but also almost unreal. Even if to assume impossible – the consent of administration of the USA to re-export of these subsystems to Russia, such transaction will be for certain blocked by the Congress. So the choice in favor of Frenchmen is the compelled and unique decision. We will not forget that France along with Germany and Italy occupies the most cooperative if not to tell, a friendly position concerning Russia. In general, the Mistral is in a greater degree political, than a military-technical choice

According to the current Military Doctrine, forecasts for change of military-political con***ions, plans MO/VMF and other documents, and also vision of experts - on what ТВД and in what terms there will be a necessity for the ships of type "Mistral"? They will solve what problems? Whether it is possible to solve the same problems by means of others, cheaper/effective remedies.

The current Military doctrine – the document of the most general character under which it is possible подверстать everything. Plans MO/VMF hardly to somebody are known outside of their management. Most likely, in practice "Mistrals" will be used as the ships of management by Navy groupings in Me***erranean sea and in Indian ocean, that is mainly in a staff role. It will be the big admiral's staff ships.

What Russian systems of air defense are supposed to be established on the ship, it is obvious Duets or Daggers? Whether the architecture of the ship for its integration with domestic ЗРК will change? The case for adaptation to our con***ions will amplify How? How many it is concrete fighting vehicles and in what proportions it is possible to ship aboard - i.e. all variants: tanks, БМП and an armored troop-carrier, trucks? What power-plant is supposed - Vjartsilja or another?

Judging by the known data, the design of first two ships (ordered in France) will be changed only in the most minimum degree. The arms, probably, remains almost rudimentary, and, most likely, will be a combination of two-four АК-630 (or "Duets") and steams "are flexible". Integration of more serious systems will demand too serious redesign of the ship. Probably that redesign attempts will undertake by two ships assumed to construction in the Russian Federation. There is an information that commander-in-chief Vysotsky even stated idea about placing on Russian Mistrals УКСК with "Calibres". Landing possibilities, probably, remain the same, as with the French ships. The mistral can bear no more than 13 tanks and to 60 units of wheel technics. ЭУ, certainly, remains French.

In the long term on the basis of "Mistral" Russia plans creation of the helicopter carriers or even aircraft carriers?

It is how much possible to judge, the requirement for helicopter carriers on all foreseeable prospect will be closed by purchase of Mistrals. As to aircraft carriers the next ten years will be conducted at first research, and then developmental works on designing of an aircraft carrier of new generation to begin construction of such ships within the limits of action of the following state arms programme after 2020. Up until that time авианосная a component in the Russian Navy it will be presented ТАВКР «the Admiral of Smiths» who, as it is known, soon will rise in intermediate term repair after which it besides will receive new aviagroup on the basis of multi-purpose deck fighters MiG-29K. As a whole if Russia manages to keep the status of great power it, of course, is doomed to have авианосный fleet. It is possible to predict with confidence that the next decade there will be a wide circulation авианосных fleet in the world. If the USA and the European countries reduce the авианосные potentials in Asia and Latin America, on the contrary, will appear new авианосные powers. Abundantly clear that ambitious programs of building of national aircraft carriers and aviabearing ships are realized by China and India, rather probably that in авианосный the club will return Brazil.The Chinese growth can provoke acquisition or creation of the national aviabearing ships by the countries of Southeast and Northeast Asia – Vietnam, Indonesia, Korea and Japan. It is clear that Russia doesn't presume to stand aside from these tendencies.

It is said that domestic the Navies interested control systems, than the ship more, it is truth?

Generally there is an opinion that SENIT-9 has no particular advantage in comparison with new domestic ship АСБУ. More likely from the operational point of view its electronic "stuffing" is more interesting to the Navy of Russia "electric" ЭУ than the modern western fighting ship, instead of.


According to many military seamen the Mistral actually not the military ship - booking of the case isn't present, движители which provide to it manoeuvrability, are very vulnerable for any, least fire influence of the opponent. As a matter of fact it is civil ferry with helicopters. It can means against pirates is simple?

Case booking, strictly speaking, now in general isn't present at anybody, except the big aircraft carriers. Vulnerability dvizhitelej - «азиподов» - a question disputable and debatable, but opinion on their vulnerability from underwater explosions on shoal is. A problem that survivability of this ship is really considerably lowered (on непотопляемости, водоотливным and to fire-prevention means and so forth) . It is valid «the big ferry». But here it is necessary to understand that "Mistral" is оцень integral концепт the ship for the decision of problems of Naval Forces of the PEACE TIME. That is if we consider as the main things for the Navy of a problem of a peace time, claims to "Mistral" малообоснованны basically. If we consider that the main tasks for the Navy are problems of a wartime (that is, in a context of the Russian con***ions, - large-scale war about the USA and the NATO) in that case, of course, it is necessary to speak about the ship of absolutely other shape (and in this case, by the way, it is doubtful that the Navies of the Russian Federation in general will be necessary the landing ships more largely БДК).

Why such "rich and aggressive" the countries how Portugal (at them the big problems with the budget, and want 1+1 UDC small, last year have signed intentions on Enforcer), Chile, Indonesia (and at it already is 2 and have subscribed for 2 большего в/и), Canada, Singapore, Turkey, Brazil, Australia incorporate already fresh UDC, build, or are seriously adjusted to buy it in the near future? Whence such fashion? Military men гнобят domestic ВПК unnecessary purchases everywhere, or this it is really favourable and it is useful?

First, we will be defined with terminology. UDC, that is the universal landing ships (in domestic terminology) is meanwhile only at the USA, France, Spain and South Korea, and still are under construction for Australia. All others have ships (or plans of their acquisition) basically with much more moderate characteristics – the desantno-helicopter ships-docks or landing transports-docks. Here, by the way, a difference not only constructive, but also that ДКВД and ДТР, as a rule, are much less adapted for long forwarding problems. That is it not the ships «long presence at remote waters», and in most cases only «transportations and disembarkation». It means that at similarity of shape, their problem others, and it is faster simply very big transportno-landing ships. It is necessary minor for the states in most cases, instead of the decision of forwarding problems.

Secondly, just in Portugal, owing to known economic problems of this country realize the plans can't. For Indonesians in general are available only cheap transport лоханки. Canada doesn't plan for a long time already, plans of Brazil aren't clear.

Thirdly, acquisition of the ships is defined by problems of fleet. Planning of purchases goes from problems. The NATO countries get such the ships for joint coalition forwarding intervention actions on grab of global strategy of the USA. Island and архипелажные the states too it is clear what for such ships have. Chile as a matter of fact the sea country extended along coast, with the possible main thing sea ТВД on archipelago of Tierra del Fuego.

Whether it would be desirable to learn there is what that more less quality standards of stability of the ship to influence of anti-submarine rockets, mines, etc. What means of struggle against a fire is on a vessel (whether there are fire-engines, etc.)?

As it has already been told, "Mistral" on the idea – концепт the ship for the decision of problems of Naval Forces of the PEACE TIME. Therefore requirements on fighting survivability at it basically minimum, and attempt of realizations of such requirements is in full impossible, for will make meaningless the concept of "the cheap forwarding ship». Fire highways at it, of course, are, but at ship survey clearly that fire-prevention possibilities at "Mistral" much more low, than at aircraft carriers, for example.

- nhầm . xoá []

với cái giá 1,7 tỉ USD cho 2chiếc tàu đổ bộ chở trực thăng mà không chuyển giao công nghệ của hệ thống tác chiến điện tử thì rất đáng ngờ vì lúc đầu NGA chỉ định mua 2 chiếc với giá từ 900 đến 1 tỉ Đô la vậy mà 2 bên lại ca ngợi vụ thoả thuận này coi nó là biểu tượng của hợp tác chiến lược chắc bên trong có uẩn khúc gì đó vì trước kia đã có 1 quan chức NGa tham gia đàm phán thương vụ này bị cách chức
-----------------------------Tự động gộp Reply ---------------------------
mà nguồn tin có vẻ mâu thuẫn ở đây lại nói có chuyển giao SENIT-9http://quocphong.baodatviet.vn/Home/QPCN/toancanh/My-phat-sot-khi-Nga-dat-but-ky-hop-dong-mua-tau-Mistral/20116/150775.datviet

Phà chở lợn thì cần gì phần mềm để gắn vũ khí. Ở Nga có bọn cướp lợn táo tợn àh.

Pháp đồng ý chuyển giao công nghệ nhạy cảm trên tàu Mistral như hệ thống Zenit-9.

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20110620/164725353.html

Giờ thì rõ là vì sao cái giá nó cao như thế rồi, không nhiều @ lại tự sướng là sao tự nhiên Sà cô lại trúng được quả hời thế.