Discussion about India and Indian people (or whatever you want but English only)

Hey Everybody,
This is Terry again - viheart811''s fiancee.
I am posting some photographs of the engagement - doesn''t she look super-dep ?

Hi anh Terry, welcome to our forum and congrats to u for engagement with our pretty girl
Regarding ur ques, I briefly think that:
1. It depends on your convenience to decide where to register bcoz in terms of timing, it will take you a month or so to complete the marriage registration procedure either in Vietnam or India. In case u wanna register in VN, U have to visit Vietnam at least twice, one is for attending an interview round and another is for announcing of the marriage by the local authority. I assume that Viheart will have to follow the same things if u guys will register in India. As I have less practical information regarding the procedure there in India so somebody else in the forum will share further info for ur better understanding . Anybody plz????
2. What process to be followed in Vietnam? It is not so tough the way I used to think about, just checked with the competent authority few weeks back for my own interest, here r all what u should follow:
2.1. To prepare a package of documents including:
(i) Application form (ready made in such local agency, just go there and take it then fill up)
(ii) Martial status certificate issued by either local authority of India and Vietnam for u and Viheart respectively (this kind of doc is normally in form of an affidavit issued by a local court where you registered ur residence in India to which certify your current martial status (i.e. single/separate/married). I got a sample, will send via email if u need).
(iii) Passport/ID card of each
(iv) Proof of residence (So ho khau) where the girl registered for residence in Viet Nam.
(v) Health check certificate (to be easy to get here in VN for both, just go to a hospital which will be appointed by the local agency and do check ur health and get the certificate)
2.2 Please note that those docs r not written in Vietnamese should be legalized and translated into Vietnamese. You have to visit Vn Embassy for this purpose. I will discuss further on this regard later on.
2.3 *****bmit all docs to the Department of Justice (So tu phap) where the girl registered for residence in Vietnam.
2.4 To attend one interview round organized by the local agency where the application is being proceeded after few weeks, probably 3 weeks as from the date of deposit the docs. The interview is applicable for both, one translator is required as you r speaking in English , u can arrange this translator by ur own or they will hire somebody and u will bear all the cost
2.5 To attend the announcement day to receive your certificate and sign in it. Then u will b done with the registration
So, it seems to be quite long procedure, however from the practical view I think it will b alright as the procedure is quite clear. Plz ask me ques if you wanna have more clarification.
Cheers,
Ata
Ohhhh btw, HAPPY NEW LUNAR YEAR to everybody !!!!!!!!!!!!

Pix r all great indeed !!!!
Im really impressed by her dress
Just one curious ques, how come u kissed her in front of others as u guys were there in your conservative India

Beautiful dress, beautiful girl, beautiful couple. Congrats again!

Chùc mư?ng anh chì nhè. Đèp 'Ăi quà, chùc 2 ngươ?i luĂn hành phùc nhè!
Chì Viheart xinh lf́m

@copconmisa Cọp ơi, H thích nên đi dạo vòng vòng thui. Bạn Ấn H có khá nhiều từ trẻ trung đến xồn xồn, có gia đình và chưa có gia đình, thích arranged marriage and love marriage nên cũng có ít kinh nghiệm. Một số bạn gái VN còn chưa có cái nhìn tổng quát về xã hội Ấn, một xã hội có rất nhiều sự khác biệt và nặng nề về giai cấp tiền bạc nên H cũng muốn đưa ra vài điểm thui. Còn về phần vé máy bay, do nghề nghiệp H đã làm vé máy bay một thời gian nên cũng biết cách check nhiều hãng hàng không.

Bạn H có viết 1 bài chống đối arranged marriage process. Các bạn đọc và cho ý kiến nha.
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[FONT=&quot]Why I am against Arranged Marriage Process
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]by[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Vincy Luthra[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Marriage is supposed to be a union of two persons who are so in love with each other that they want to spend their whole life with each other and to do so they perform a ceremony in presence of their friends and family as per their religious norms.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is what I presume the definition of marriage is.
In reaching this event called marriage the most important component is Love followed by happiness and prosperity.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But as I undoubtedly convince my friends worldwide without any shame that India is the land of hypocrites.* Accept it, it’s in our genes and blood. We have become so hypocrite that we ourselves cannot consciously differentiate between the reality and what we are posing. Not being any individual’s fault but this is how the whole Indian society has been poisoning itself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In India when a child grows to an adult to a marriageable age, he/she is so much con***ioned from his parents, elder relatives about the marriage process that he/she is burdened with the pressure to go with it. Not only the boy but the more pressure comes on his parents from their peers/elders in the so called society to marry off their offspring as it is the right time, age, place etc. ; this pressure is further mounted to the boy to which he reacts in his own way. Some feel they are right, some resist/protest, some critically think about it (This is what I am doing).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Let’s visualize a small case study:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Vincy’s mom checked out some matrimonial columns in the Sunday Tribune and found some suitable matches to which she contacted via email sending her boy’s profile with a perfect resume and charming studio pictures. Replies came in which were forwarded to Vincy and he is in a fix now; what to do? [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Vincy’s Mom point of view: My boy is of right age, qualified and earning enough, doing a good job, everything seems settled down pretty well. Just need a nice girl who can take care of him, handle home and preferably working and contributing to her family finances.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Vincy’s point of view: Gosh, feels so embarrassing when sitting in front of some out of now where grey haired couple asking me, how much I earn and the girl’s mom scanning me with her spectacles on. On top of that both parents try to boast off their achievements in life, how much property and business they established, how much they spend on their children’s education etc. After maximum two meeting they want things to be fixed and within three months they want some engagement party followed by a wedding in the next three months. Case Closed. While I am trying to settle down in life, find a better job, start a new business, lose weight – feel healthy, travel around and do other things which I dreamed about. But No, I am expected to marry off a same religion, caste girl, produce kids (and preferably boy kid), earn enough to feed and pamper them and live like an ideal Indian man and making sure to keep smiling hypocrite look on[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I mean c’mon people let’s look at this thing with an International perspective. India land of [/FONT][FONT=&quot]1,220,200,000 people; ask yourself honestly, Can you even make out that figure in Billions. I am not trying to deviate from the main topic but why I am trying to focus your attention to is the most important factor for which we all thrive for “Happiness” in our daily lives. A normal Indian guy is so depressed and tired; to make his bread and butter for himself and his family. In this resource deficit nation and sick hypocrite society, where survival is the question, we are adding fuel to the fire by adding arranged marriage in it. W[/FONT][FONT=&quot]hy can’t one simply come across someone in life and when we feel this is right time and person, and then plans to go for it. Why Love has to be time bound; why a person cannot stay single until he / she found the right one. Why every parent feel that his boy/girl should get married before one hits the age of thirty/twenty respectively and otherwise feel like a expired drug, no one would try you, even in emergency. (The hidden factor what I feel here is, with increasing age the declining ability to produce and parenting kids). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Even in countries like Vietnam and other developing south east Asian counties societies have happy agreed to eradicate the process of arranged marriage and the youth is free to choose to marry of their own choice.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]People expect love and respect from each other, without giving any just like one hungry beggar begging from another hungrier beggar. This is what the actual situation is, if you peep inside the hearts of married couples. They try to find happiness from their already happiness deficit partner and then fight, get annoyed, and complain when they don’t get it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I am not against marriage or arranged marriage but I am against the way it is being performed. Let things go naturally, First thing first one should feel that he or she is ready for marriage, even if one wants to go for arranged marriage, parents should allow the boy and the girl to talk, meet and understand each other for some time till they don’t feel confident enough to commit. Once done, the ball keeps rolling and one revolutionary would be born again.[/FONT]
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@phamkyhuong Tớ là tớ vẫn không tin nàng không có ai "đặc biệt" trong số các bạn Ấn của nàng đâu []

Bạn Hương viết bài này for a competition à? Tại vì tớ có đọc lướt qua một bài tương tự (cùng chủ đề nhưng do người khác viết) và nhớ mang máng người đó nói là viết nó for a competition, or maybe a debate. Anyway, some of my thoughts:

The author seems wildly confused. He mentioned many concepts (love, marriage, tra***ions, life, happiness, etc.) but I doubt if he knows what is the source of his frustrations.

First of all, I'm not sure hypocrisy is the culprit here. In the case of showing off while negotiating an arranged marriage, it's vanity. In the case of clinging onto (marriage) customs and tra***ions, it's the lack of independent and critical thinking. It could also be just laziness: this is the path laid down by countless previous generations, why should I take a new path and venture into uncharted territory? Or maybe it's cowardice and a desire to belong: if I don't follow the norms, I'll be the oddball in the community, outcasted by the society.

Definition of marriage: Vincy romanticizes marriage with his definition. While Wikipedia is by no mean the definitive source of information, this article on marriage provides very good overall background on marital practices across different cultures. According to one scholar: marriage is "a relation of one or more men to one or more women that is recognized by custom or law" (emphasis on one or more ). Love is almost not mentioned in this Wiki article, except at 2 places: Confucius's definition of marriage (in which it more likely refers to familial love in general, not necessarily romantic love), and what marital love is according to Christianity (an image of God's love for humankind).

Is love really required in marriage? No. For centuries, people all over the world have got married without loving each other (romantically).
Is love really required for a successful marriage? Depending on the definition of a successful marriage. In many Asian countries, a marriage used to be considered successful if the wife could bear at least one son (to continue the husband's lineage).

What is the major difference between love marriage and arranged marriage? In love marriage, people get married when there is romantic love between them. In order for love to develop between 2 strangers, they need to spend time getting to know each other (note that this is not sufficient con***ion for falling in love with each other). This courting process is not required in arranged marriage, because the only decisive factors here are the prospectives' (family/cultural) background and current situation (education, wealth, career, etc.). The compatibility of these attributes from both sides is enough of a reason for the couple to enter marriage.
Since it is the courting process that differentiates love vs. arranged marriage, it does not matter how the prospective couple meet. In Western societies, dating services are commonly used by people who want to find love yet have not run into any special someone. These services also try to match people with similar background and traits/personalities, which is the underlying principle of arranged marriage. In India, it's becoming more and more popular to have a blend between love and arranged marriage. The families still look for matches like before, but once the couple meet, they spend a longer time getting to know each other, until they decide that, well, we are not madly in love, but we like each other enough to spend the rest of our lives together. Or not.
Which is better, love or arranged marriage? There are many arguments for or against either, as well as numerous examples of success/failure in both categories. Personally, I think love makes it easier to commit to the lifelong compromises/sacrifices required in this demanding relationship. Love can also make up for certain differences in background, personality, social status, etc. between the couple. It's important to remember however, that love is never enough.

Life and happiness: Major metaphysical concepts, assuming this is not about happiness for having passed a school test, but for living a good satisfying life. The first question one should ask oneself is, what do I want in life? Do I want a well-paid job, a big house, loving and good(-looking) wife/husband and children? Do I want to travel the world? Do I want to create/invent the next bitten Apple? Or do I want to feed hungry children in Africa? No doubts we all want many things in life, and more often than not, these things conflict each other. For example, I want to ace my school test tomorrow, but I also want to watch the next episode of the latest soap opera on TV tonight. What to do?
Once we know what we want and prioritize our wants and needs, it'll become easier to decide if it's time to get married, whether to go for love or arranged marriage, how to look for a worthy bride/groom, and how to tie he/she down for life

Originally written by @copconmisa here (let me know if I mistranslated your post, I'll correct it).

1.Normally at what age would the Indians / Pakistanis marry? My friend said his friends in Dubai would get engaged around 22 and 23, and then get married once they graduate.
2. In nowadays modern society, it's true that LM has become more popular, right? Also according to this friend of mine, many of his friends currently in Pakistan have got married for love. I'm not sure about that.
3. What is the view of remarriage in Indian society for women / men who are divorced/widowed? My friend told me that when the first wife of his cousin died during childbirth, he was only 27 years old. 2 years later his family urged him to remarry even though that was not what he wanted. But because he was young and he also needed someone to take care of the child so he married a girl who had never married before. I think for men, this is much easier but for women the chance is almost zero. Is it correct?
4. The divorce rate in the major cities of India is rising, as I read in newspapers. Do you know the effects of divorce for the rest of the family members, especially those who have not married?

They are all well-translated. Thank for it, Teekanne

My "news agency" doesn't want to register for an id himself, so I'm posting on his behalf what he has to say in response to @copconmisa 's questions:

1. In India also marriages would normally be right after graduation, especially for women. For men, perhaps a little later, after they have taken up a stable job and have started earning some money. But the parents for both guys and girls would start looking for a match soon after they graduate. The engagement itself is not that significant in most of India. To avoid the risk that an engaged couple might pursue some romantic adventures before marriage (anything of that sort is taboo), there is usually a small gap between engagement and marriage.

2. Yes love marriages have become increasingly common in India too, especially in middle class society or in urban areas. But since dating is not that common, nor openly accepted within the family, romantic relationships will be kept under the radar. Couples would hide it from their families until they are ready for marriage. For most families even in urban India it would still be unacceptable to openly pursue a romantic relationship without getting married. So once you disclose the relationship to your families you better get married right away.
Since all this happens under the radar, it is quite difficult to have a real blossoming love relationship in India. All the way from meeting an interesting person of the opposite ***, to spending time together to know them and fall in love, the opportunities are very limited. Most boys and girls would either know each other from the neighborhood, or meet in college or at work. Few people besides the well-to-do in urban areas would have other social venues such as parties and bars to meet new people. Even when there are such venues available, families usually would not approve of young people socializing with the opposite ***. There will always be questions about where you are going, who you are meeting, what you are doing there, etc. In ad***ion, it is harder to find single women at such venues as there is a tendency to stigmatize them with having a "loose character" if they openly mix with men. Let's say a boy and girl do meet at a social venue and are interested in each other. The next step becomes even more difficult because a couple cannot openly spend time alone without people raising eyebrows and talking.
Again, I'm not saying all this does not happen in India. In fact it is happening in increasing numbers. But it is not easy and it is not the norm. There are many open-minded families and parents, but the majority just claim to be open-minded, as long as their own sons and daughters are not involved.

From my understanding, young people today always have that fantasy of a romantic love marriage and do try for it, but the opportunities are few and far between. Once they are in their late-twenties and have failed to "catch" someone, they will (a) give in to family pressure to have an arranged marriage, (b) themselves come to the realisation that the best way to have a romantic partner is to get the family's help in finding a suitable girl. At least that way they can openly go bride/groom-hunting with the family's approval.
I have seen that from personal experience. Most of my friends (guys) in school/college, if not all of them, had ideas about a romantic relationship ending in a love marriage. Yet, I can count on one hand the number who eventually had love marriages. And I know for a fact that none were forced into an arranged marriage. As time passed they realized that it was the best way for them to choose a bride of their liking and pursue some kind of romance. Disclaimer: The numbers from an engineer's experience could be skewed by the extremely small number of girls in college and at work.

3. In general there is more acceptance towards people who are widowed because of the feeling that a death is no one's fault (unless it was murder ). On the other hand, someone involved in a divorce raises more eyebrows because of the feeling that they have somehow failed in a marriage. So when the question of remarriage arises, people will be more wary of a divorcee: were there problems with their character, with their nature, with their families, etc., is there reason to believe that it could happen again with the second marriage, and so on. However, with the increasing occurrence of divorce the attitudes of people towards divorcees is also changing in India.
The situation does get complicated when someone has a child from a previous marriage. The true reason for this is understandable concerns not much different than what people anywhere else in the world would have. For example, the new spouse will have to adjust with the child, the overall relationships will be more complicated, etc. In India, it just becomes another stigma for no special reason. Love marriage = one eyebrow; divorcee = two eyebrows; with child = three eyebrows!
All these concerns about divorcees or widowed folks would be multiplied when it comes to women. That is again because of the lower status of women in society in general. Every guy wants an "ideal" bride, but when it comes to looking for a groom, the requirements can be more flexible. Even so, I wouldnt say divorced women have almost zero chance for remarriage, and that is why I said that opinions are changing. The main reason is that divorces are becoming increasingly common in India. So people are seeing more divorcees around them and that makes it easier for them to accept that divorcees, even divorced women, need not be unacceptable life partners.

4. As for the effect of divorce on other members of the family who are yet to be married, I think that is again at the level of concerns about the situation in the family, the nature of the people in the family and how they treat their relationships. Why was it that they had to end the marriage? There are two factors to consider here. Firstly, marriage is still viewed as a sacred bond. So, despite the increasing number of divorces, people wont have a good view of someone or a family that doesnt treat it as a big deal (Haven't the parents instilled in their children the belief that marriage bond is sacrosanct and a divorce is to be avoided at all costs?). Secondly, in India the marriage is still treated as a family affair, not just between husband and wife. Everyone pokes their nose into everyone else's affair That's why if there is a failed marriage in the family, it sheds a bad light on the whole family (Why couldn't the family sort out the issues that led to the divorce?).