Giới thiệu về Su-27SKM và Su-30MK2 (Phần 3)

Đúng là vui vẻ.Ngày 29 Nga mới cho báo chí xem và sờ vào PAK FA thì sau là hai ngày nghỉ nhưng báo chí nga và nước ngoài liên tục đưa các bài về PAK FA và anh công khai "Glasnost" của Nga cũng chịu khó tìm lại kho tàng hàng triệu ảnh của YF, F-22 để tìm một vài cái ảnh gần giống so sánh với PAK FA .Nhung chiếc mũi máy bay thon của Su-27 nối thẳng xuống thân bụng nơi có khoang vũ khí và hai ống hút gió để hai bên thấp xuống một chút làm chỗ cho cánh cửa của khoang vũ khí mở ra với động cơ 3D lực đẩy véc tơ dùng cho máy bay với các chiêu cơ động của đòng Su-27 làm cho người đọc khoái chí...cười .Nhưng lại lo vậy tàng hình kém đi à..? Lại Google và bao nhiêu giả thuyết lại đưa ra.Lại theo vài từ tuyên bố trên báo chí tàng hình hơn Su-35 40 lần .Nhưng tàng hình của Su-35, F-22, F-35 ...? là bao nhiêu .Ai biết chính xác nào.F-22 chỉ biểu diễn trên không , chưa đõ trên mặt đất để sờ vào.Tuyên bố thì ghê quá nhưng hải quân nước bạn bắt được khi bay ngang đâu chỉ 0.1-0.01 , còn chiếc F-35 đời đầu hoá ra hàng thử nay dùng để tập bắn còn đến 2020 biết đâu chẳng hơn PAK FA chứ.Chịu vậy làm bài tàng hình về PAK FA còn sau tiếp là vũ khí và sau nữa là soa sánh với F-22/35 và cuối cùng là các thông số về PAK FA.. có hay không ? Hãy đợi đấy !

một cách tương đối,Su47 có ~60% lực nâng do thân đảm nhiệm,40% còn lại do cánh chính và các bộ phận khác sản sinh.OK?
thứ 2,ý tưởng máy bay có cánh mũi tên hướng về phía trước vốn do Nga đầu têu nhưng thời gian đó CN vật liệu của TG chưa đáp ứng được nên nó bỏ ko pt nữa,tới nay,khi có composite thì Nga mới quay lại làm týp.Nói Su47 bắt trước X-29 là ko đúng vì nhìn hình dạng tuy giống ngau nhưng chỉ một tý khác biệt là thấy rõ ngay.X29 có cánh dài còn thân nhỏ,là kiểu TK cổ,bây giờ nếu Mỹ có làm con mới thì cũng sẽ tương đối với con Su47,tức là cánh cũng ngắn và thân cũng rộng.
một điều khác nữa mà F2 cũng nhắc đến là công nghệ thrust-vector,về điều này,nói Mỹ pt trước Nga là chính xác nhưng nói ĐC Mỹ ăn ĐC Nga thì thực sự là ko rõ ràng.thứ nữa là ĐC chỉ đóng góp 1 phần chứ ko phải tất cả đâu,bạn lấy cái mạnh của mình so với cái chưa mạnh của người khác thì tính gì.bây giờ cái gì người ta cũng tính tỉ suất tương đối cả,chứng khoán nó kêu là chỉ số NP hay NI gì đó,với cái số tiền tạo ra con F22 thì cũng ra đc hơn 1 con Su47 là cái chắc,tiền bảo trì bảo quản 1 con F22 thì cũng hơn 2 con Su47 là cái chắc.
cuối cùng thì mình cũng nói thêm là vấn đề ổn định bay,cái này thì MB Mỹ chưa = máy bay Nga.Nga có cái khác Mỹ là cái gì cũng bắn từ lý thuyết mà ra,đơn cử như các profile cánh cũng là ánh xạ jukópki từ một hình nào đó còn Mỹ thì cứ dùng hình dạng,TN,đưa ra thông số.ko thể nói của ai tốt hơn ai nhưng về mặt cảm tính,một cái gì đó dựa trên lý thuyết vững chắc thì luôn thuyết phục hơn.Tại sao?vì thực nghiệm có nhiều đến đâu cũng o thể tíhn hết được các trường hợp trong quá trình SD,vì vậy mà trong thực chiến,MB Nga thường ổn định hơn,dễ cơ động hơn.
E chẳng phải pro Nga hay pro Mỹ gì cả,ai hay thì e công nhận thôi
Nga ăn về MB,TL
Mỹ lại ăn về hậu cần
-->mỗi anh mỗi vẻ thôi
Được aircraftofbk sửa chữa / chuyển vào 11:10 ngày 01/02/2010

Hê hê, F 22 làm được cobra với động cơ 2D thì phải dùng máy tính phe phảy thật lực mấy cái stabilizer.
Để dễ hiểu hãy hình dung cái thuyền buồm đi ngược gió khổ như thế nào, còn cái thuyền có động cơ xịn chỉ cần hơi nước thôi nó khinh các loại gió, nhể.
Vấn đề nghĩ ra nhưng phải dùng được, quân sự hay máy tính cũng thế, cái F 22 cobra kiểu voi biết bay vẫy tai khác gì cái Intel i960 superscalar chỉ biết ngồi canh chuột, nhể phờ nhể

à mà Nga nó bẩu máy bay Su 35 còn biết làm super cobra maneuvre cơ, thế mới thể hiện động cơ và aiframe nhé.
Mà này F 15 có làm cobra phát nào không, phờ tu có link cho xin cái

quên mất phần các loại MB hiện nay thường có thân rộng và có xu hướng dẹt,nó giúp thân tạo ra một phần lực nâng,giảm kết cấu cánh-->MB bền hơn,vững chắc hơn,mang đc nhiều VK hơn,ĐB là các MB tàng hình vì khi mang VK chúng thường để trong box chứ ko treo ở cánh.
PS:nếu F22 hợp lý đến hoàn hảo như pác đề cử thì con F35 chẳng phải là thừa sao,có lẽ pác nên so sánh F35 với Su35 thì hơn.
e chỉ là sv thôi,ko có nhiều kiến thức như pác nhưng cũng ko mù quáng như pác.

hề hề, http://ttvnol.com/forum/quansu/1095209/trang-54.ttvn#16178328
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-081109-1.html
Chú Nga vàng ệch này ký tên:
Peter Goon
Principal Consultant/Adviser
Head of Test and Evaluation
Co-Founder, Air Power Australia
Peter Goon and Associates

Mob: +61 (0)41 980 6476
Sunday, 8 November 2009
Kết quả phán láo của chú ấy: F22 được +2 điểm, Pak FA được +8 điểm, J12/Jxx là 0 điểm, F35 là -8 điểm, Su35 là +2 điểm

Xem lại chú tàng hình Su-47 của Nga từ những năm 80
Sukhoi Su-47 Berkut (Golden Eagle)

The Sukhoi Su-47 Berkut (Golden Eagle in Russian) also designated as S-32 and S-37 during its initial development is an experimental fighter jet designed by Sukhoi Aviation Corporation. A distinctive feature of this aircraft is inverted wing structure that was similar to the model Tsybin LL-3. It was only produced an aircraft of this model as a prototype technology demonstrator. The construction of a second prototype was canceled shortly thereafter. Sometimes erroneously known as the SU-37, which is a completely different aircraft.
Originally designated as Berkt, the Su-47 was originally built as the leading Russian aircraft test flight sophisticated fly-by-wire and advanced composite materials. The aircraft also makes use of inverted wings allowing it to have super maneuverable and operate at angles of attack of 45 degrees or more.

Like its U.S. counterpart, the X-29, the Su-47 is primarily a technology demonstrator, which was intended as the basis for the next generation of Russian fighter jets. This aircraft is not only intended to be as advanced as the F-22 Raptor, but also was competing for funds with more conventional MiG 1.44 which was also competing to become the new Russian air superiority fighter. But Sukhoi is trying to sell the Su-47 Russian military forces and potential foreign customers as a fifth generation fighter aircraft.
The Su-47 has similar dimensions to those of other combat aircraft as designed by Sukhoi Su-35. In order to reduce development costs, the Su-47 uses the forward fuselage, vertical tails and landing gear developed for the family of Su-27. The aircraft also includes improvements to reduce its radar signature, such as using absorbent material radar waves and internal compartments for weapons as well as extra space to add an advanced radar system. Despite being similar in concept to the American X-29 aircraft designed in the 80s, the Su-47 has almost doubled in size and design closer to what a modern fighter aircraft.

To solve the problem of high stress that support the wings due to its unusual shape, the Su-47 makes use of composite materials, arranged in such a way as to withstand high stresses and in turn allow the wing to bend To improve its aerodynamics. Because of the breadth of its wings, the Su-47 is equipped with folding wings so that it can fit inside Russian hangars. Like its predecessor, the Su-37, the Su-47 is a tandem-triplane layout, with canards ahead of the wings and tail planes.
The novel design of the Su-47 allows for extreme agility at subsonic speeds, enabling the aircraft to alter its angle of attack and its flight path rapidly while retaining their ability to maneuver at supersonic speeds. The Su-47 has a top speed of Mach 2.34 at high altitudes and has a greater maneuverability to 9g. A better cornering and higher and lower speed limits for launching weapons are important criteria in terms of superiority in aerial combat. The Su-47 has high levels of maneuverability with maintained stability and control at extreme angles of attack. The maximum turning radius is extremely important in close combat and even fighting over long distances when the mission includes attacking multiple targets in different sectors of airspace. The turning ability of the Su-47 allows the pilot turning the plane very quickly to address a potential threat or attack the next target as soon as possible. The only problem with this is that if you are not careful the Su-47 can lose control and fall into a spin with almost no chance to regain control.

The use of reverse angle wings compared with normal wings of the same size provides several advantages:
1) Increased capacity in close air combat maneuvers.
2) Better range at subsonic speeds.
3) Greater stability in high angles of attack.
4) A lower level of minimum flight speed.
5) A better cornering.
6) Allows the takeoff and landing smaller.
In terms of the Su-47 fuselage is constructed primarily of aluminum alloy and titanium. Besides using up to 13% of composite materials. The nose is so arranged that optimizes the anti-rotation of the aircraft, so it difficult to lose control of the device.

The Su-47 also has vector thrust engines, of + / -20 degrees to 30 degrees per second, which increases even more due to its high maneuverability reverse angle wings.
The cabin is designed to maintain a high degree of comfort for the pilot so that it can maintain control of the device closed even in high load maneuvers g. The aircraft is equipped with a new ejection seat and life support system. The variable geometry of the seat is inclined at an angle of 60 degrees which reduces the impact of the g-forces on the pilot allowing avoidance maneuvers and fighting a level of g-forces that normally could not be tolerated.
Among the general characteristics of the Su-47 can mention a single-seater plane with a length of 22.6 meters, wingspan of 15.16 meters and a height of 6.3 meters. Its wing area is 61.87 m2 with an empty weight of 16,375 kilograms and a maximum laden weight of 25,000 kilograms. It is equipped with two propellers Lyulka AL-37FU turbofans with digital control which can generate a thrust of 83.4 kN thrust each dry and 142.2 kN with afterburner. It has a service ceiling de18.000 meters with a rate of climb of 233 meters / sec. Wing can take a load of 360 kg/m2.
It can reach a top speed of Mach 2.34 at high altitude and a speed of Mach 1.31 at sea level. The costs of the Su-47 is about $ 70 million.

Mình thấy tỉ lệ mà bạn đưa ra rất vô lý, diện tích phần thân có thể tạo lực nâng (tức bụng máy bay) chỉ có thể bằng khỏang 20% so với diện tích cánh, thế mà cánh (cụ thể là tiết diện cánh) được thiết kế tối ưu về khí động học để tạo lực nâng tối đa, nghĩa là 1m2 cánh sẽ cho lực nâng gấp nhiều lần 1m2 của bụng máy bay, do đó không thể nào thân máy bay cho lực nâng chiếm trên 20%.

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Sweden_JAS 39 Gripen (Griffin)
Photo ?" aereo.jor.br
For anyone whô?Ts into fighter jets, this article will be a treat as it compares the latest, greatest and costliest in aviation research and development. Presented here are Sweden?Ts Griffin, the EU?Ts Typhoon and two extraordinary fighters from Russia. One thing is sure: the Joint Strike Fighter Program (F-35) of the United States and several allied nations has competition. Buckle up for our supersonic tour.
Competition for the F-35
United States defense and public news media present the F-35 as a fighter in a class by itself without serious competition. The self promotion is obvious and inaccurate. There are several aircraft programs in other countries with similar capability and objectives. In some countries, budget limitations have restricted these programs to research and design studies, and the only aircraft flying are prototypes and demonstrators. For other nations, there is limited production with delivery to the home country?Ts air force and a few early customers in other nations. These programs are similar to the F-35 in terms of calendar for development to final design and production. Military aviation commentators and journalists outside the United States often attribute superiority to the latest Russian fighters over those made by the USA in air combat scenarios.
The United States is far ahead when looking at commitments to purchase F-35s, particularly with Italy?Ts intent to buy 131 F-35s, and Turkey planning to acquire 116 Joint Strike Fighters. The United States military aviation funding capacity is usually assumed to be limitless and subject only to the political and funding whims of the season. US Secretary of State Robert Gates has recently introduced a reality check into this aspect of next generation fighter development. Still, at the end of the day, American deep pockets for finance seem to be in a tier of their own that no other nation can match.
There are ?~dark horsê?T candidates for F-35 competition in Sweden and the European Union that could challenge F-35 market dominance. Is it possible for Russia, and later China, to dramatically ramp up production of their 5th generation aircraft and thereby close the gap with the United States in the race for global military aviation dominance?
Sweden ?" Saab JAS 39 Gripen (Griffin)
http://www.ahrtp.com/EG_Images3/Sweden_JAS%2039%20Gripen_missile_flight_opt600x247_aereo.jor.br.jpg[/img
Sweden JAS 39 Gripen ?" Firing Test Missile
Photo ?" aereo.jor.br
The Saab JAS 39 Gripen (?~Griffin?T) is a 4.5 generation Swedish multi-role fighter that is capable of air-to-air, air-to-surface, and reconnaissance missions. The Gripen NG (Next Generation) now in development increases thrust by 20% and can cruise at Mach 1.1 with air-to-air missiles. Demonstration flights reached Mach 1.2 this January. All models can operate from 800-meter-runways and can use public roadways for takeoff and landing; the Gripen can be re-armed and refueled in ten minutes by five men operating from a truck.
http://www.ahrtp.com/EG_Images3/Sweden_JAS%2039%20Gripen_****pit_opt488x550_aereo.jor.br.jpg
Sweden JAS 39 Gripen ?" ****pit
Photo ?" aereo.jor.br
The human machine interface in the Gripen is extraordinary with three full colour, head down displays and digital emergency instrument presentation. These multifunction displays are unique to the Gripen and take up 75% of ****pit space. Export cost is in the range of $40 to $61 million, below that of the F-35 whose per aircraft costing is now over $83 million and rising. Brazil, Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, India, Netherlands, Romania, Switzerland and Thailand are each considering purchases of the Gripen, for a total of at least 513 aircraft. Dutch cost estimates include a saving of $7.6 billion over the lifetime of a fleet of 85 Gripen when compared to a similar fleet of F-35s.
Euro EF2000 Typhoon

Euro EF2000 Typhoon
Photo ?" Simplify (user) at Project Reality Forums
Not wanting to leave the field to the Americans and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Program without a ?~fight?T, the European Union committed to a multi-role fighter designated the Eurofighter EF 2000 Typhoon in 1986. Eurofighter GmbH is a holding company that manages three separate partner companies that manufacture the EF 2000: Alenia Aeronautica, BAE Systems and EADS. The Typhoon is a twin-engine canard delta powered by twin EJ-200 augmented turbofans. It is designed to outperform the highest agility fighters such as the American F-117 and F-22; and the Russian MIG 29 and Su-27. Typhoon has a reduced radar cross-section but is not a considered a stealth aircraft in the usual sense.
http://www.ahrtp.com/EG_Images3/Euro_EF2000_Typhoon_****pit_opt550x440-Wikimedia.jpg
Euro EF2000 Typhoon / ****pit
Photo ?" ReaL-FrienD / Wikipedia
Typhoon?Ts glass ****pit does not have any of the conventional instruments and the pilot-plane interface capability is perhaps the most advanced in the world. There are three full, Multi-function Head Down Displays (MHDDs); XY cursor and voice (DVI) command; a wide angle, Heads Up Display (HUD) with Forward Looking Infra Red (FLIR); Voice & Hands On Throttle And Stick (Voice+HOTAS); Helmet Mounted Symbology System (HMSS); Multifunction Information Distribution System (MIDS); a Manual Data Entry Facility (MDEF) located on the left glare shield; a fully integrated aircraft warning system with a Dedicated Warnings Panel (DWP) and a speech recognition system as well.
The Eurofighter can reach Mach 2+ (2,495 km/h, 1550 mph) at 65,000?T; Mach 1.2 at sea level and Mach 1.1 at supercruise (afterburners not used). Its range is 2,900 km (1,840 m) and the combat radius 556 km (345 mph) and rate of climb is >315 m/s (62,000 ft/min).
Combat contests and games show the Typhoon to be exceptional. At the Typhoon Meet held in 2008, the Euro EF2000 won all mock combat battles against F/A-18 Hornets, Mirage F1s, Harriers and F-16s even though it was heavily outnumbered. The typhoon achieves excellent agility at both supersonic and low speeds. ?oThe Eurofighter consortium claims their fighter has a larger sustained subsonic turn rate, sustained supersonic turn rate, and faster acceleration at Mach 0.9 at 20,000 feet (6,100 m) than the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, Mirage 2000, Rafale, the Su-27, and the MiG-29?. (Source #3). It incorporates an advanced Ground Proximity Warning System (GPWS), and a sophisticated and highly integrated Defensive Aids Sub-System.

Euro EF2000 (Spain) Typhoon / July 2007
Photo ?" All Glory To The Hypnotoad / Wikimedia
The Typhoon is more expensive than the American F-35. Cost per aircraft is about £69.3 million or ~$105 million. The cost of the complete program has continued to rise as delivery dates have fallen behind contracted schedules. Since 2003, the UK Minister of Defense has refused to release project cost estimates. The 2003 figure was £20 billion ($30.2 billion), which is far below the overall costing estimated for the Joint Strike Fighter Program whose production goals are an order of magnitude higher than that planned for the Typhoon. The absence of cutting edge air to ground battle capability (now in development) in the EF2000 has led some countries to look elsewhere for their next generation fighter upgrade.
The Typhoon had its first flight March 27, 1994; the first production contract for 620 aircraft was signed January 30, 1998 but commercial production did not begin until 2003. As of May 2008, 146 Typhoons had been delivered to the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain. Austria has purchased a system package for EUR 1.969 billion that includes 9 years finance, logistics, training and simulator for 18 aircraft. Other countries with serious interest in the Typhoon are Greece, Japan and Saudi Arabia. The latter committed to purchasing 72 Typhoons in 2006, with 48 to be built in Saudi Arabia. As of late October 2008, the test program for the Royal Saudi Air Force began with one Typhoon in RSAF livery. The first UK RAF Typhoons were declared battle ready on 1 July 2008.
The Russians are Coming / MIG-35B
When listing aircraft that might be comparable to the F-35, we do not often see a Russian fighter mentioned. But wherever advanced Russian fighters are deployed, countries in the region look very closely at those aircraft when making decisions about upgrading their air forces to the F-35 or next generation fighters.

Sukhoi Su-35BM
Photo ?" daneshju.ir
The Sukhoi Su-35 (Flanker-E) is a 4.5 generation long-range, multirole, strike fighter. It closely resembles a specialized version of the Su-30. It is derived from the Su-27 program in the early 1980s wherein a Su-27M prototype first flew in 1988. Aircraft designation was changed *****-35 in 1993 after comprehensive changes had been made. 15 Su-35 (Su-27M) aircraft have been produced, of which five Su-35s (?~Super Flanker?T) have been used by the Russian Knights display team. Sukhoi began developing a 4.5 generation upgrade to the Su-35 in the mid 2000s, which is an interim design until the 5th generation PAK FA (T-50) can complete test flights and enter production. The most recent aircraft in the Su-35 family is the Sukhoi Su-35BM, alias Su-27BM or Su-27SM2. The first upgraded Su-35BM came out of the ?~black?T and into the ?~whitê?T at the MAKS-2007 airshow, and it flew on February 19, 2008. (?oBM?T translates as ?~big modernization.?T). Production is scheduled to begin in 2009.
Su-35BM has increased service life and further reductions in radar cross section. Canards were eliminated from the design because new composites and electronics further reduced aircraft weight. Fully rotating, vector thrust nozzles power Saturn engines to provide maximum maneuverability.
The Su-35BM is in prototype stage ?" only two have been built so far and the first flight was on February 19, 2008. Radar cross-section has been reduced and avionics are now entirely Russian. Its maximum speed is Mach 2.25 (2,400 km/h, 1,500 mph) at 18,000 m (59,100 ft), range is 3,600 km (1,940 nmi) and rate of climb is >280 m/s (>55,100 ft/min). The aircraft cost is estimated at $65 million.
http://www.ahrtp.com/EG_Images3/Sukhoi_Su-35BM_****pit_opt600x436_airpoweraustralia.jpg
MIG-35B ****pit
Photo ?" daneshju.ir
A small number of Su-35s are in service with the Russian Air Force with 12 deployed as of 2008. As of July 2008, the Venezuelan government has expressed interest in buying several Su-35s, and the aircraft has been offered to India, Malaysia and Algeria.
Russia ?" Su-47

Su-47 / test flight
Photo ?" airvoila
While not intended to be developed into a battle-ready, fully functional military fighter, the Su-47 (also designated S-35 and S-37) incorporates several original and potentially important features that bear close watching. Much of what is learned from the test flights of the Su-47 will be incorporated into Russiâ?Ts production of new fifth-generation aircraft. The Su-47 Berkut (Golden Eagle) transitioned to ?~whitê?T status in January 2000. One aircraft has been built at a cost estimate of Russian rubles 1.67 billion ($70 million).
Innovative features of the Su-47 include: an aluminum / titanium fuselage whose components are 13% state-of-the-art composite materials and sophisticated fly-by-wire control. Forward swept and inverted wings allow for exceptional maneuverability and attack angles up to 45°. The quick turn ability of the Su-47 may have no equal. Lower minimum flight speed allows for use of short runways. Thrust vector engines of +/?" 20 to 30 degrees/second further enhance the maneuverability capacity that derives from the high angle inverted wings. Its maximum speed is Mach 2.34 (2,500 km/h, 1,552 mph), range is 3,300 km (2,050 mi), ceiling is 18,000 m (59,050 ft) and rate of climb is 233 m/s (46,200 ft/min).
http://www.ahrtp.com/EG_Images3/Sukhoi%20Su-37_schematic_opt600x257_airvoila.jpg
Su-47 (S-37) / schematic
Photo ?" airvoila
The first article in this series (I) discusses the history of the F-35 Lightening II Program. Profile, performance standards and current status of test flight demonstrators and production aircraft are described. The third and final article (III) in this short series will look at the international partners working with the United States on the Joint Strike Fighter Program, and the problems that have emerged with F-35 design and performance.
Sources ?"
1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Ôi Giời! chế tậu được một con mà khoe lên khoe xuống.
Con nầy tàng hình cái khỉ gì. Tiết diện phản xạ radar 0.3 m2
Kém xa F-35 là 0.01 m2.
Con nầy bay đầu tiên vầu năm 1997 tồng chí Foi ạ. Chém gió vừa thôi.
Nầy cánh ngược nầy. Hổng phải của Nga đâu


Tiếp nầy.