Một số câu hỏi về kỹ thuật quân sự trong cuộc chiến Việt Nam

Quên mất, bac sli0471 có biết khoảng thời gian mà người ta cho là có không quân triều tiên ở VN không
Thanhks bác

Thần Tiễn

Tôi cũng không tin các con số của tụi North Korean. Chúng nói là phi công của chúng bắn rơi hơn 100 máy bay Mẽo. Cái gọi là trung đoàn đó tôi được nghe từ 20 năm trước. Mấy bác đó còn chua thêm là tụi phi công Bắc Triều Tiên bị rụng như sung nhưng chẳng bắn rơi được máy bay Mẽo nào. Ngoài những thứ đồn đại đó thì không thấy có nguồn tin nào khác đáng tin cậy. Blagov viết rằng ông ta có phỏng vấn 1 số chuyên gia Soviet ở VN về người Bắc Triều Tiên, họ trả lời rằng đôi khi có các khẩu đội cao xạ của Bắc Triều Tiên bảo vệ các trận địa tên lửa, nhưng họ không bao giờ nghe nói về phi công Bắc Triều Tiên. Nói thêm là mấy cái tên phi công Tàu mà bọn Mẽo nhắc tới đều là từ tài liệu của bọn Tàu. Tôi đã nói chuyện với vài tên Tàu về chiến tranh VN và tạm kết luận là sách vở của chúng cũng chẳng đáng tin cậy.
Sách và tạp chí tôi có bản in, không rõ trên Internet có không. Nói chung tôi không tin các thứ trên Internet lắm, trừ những sites có dẫn sách vở cẩn thận.

Được sli0471 sửa chữa / chuyển vào 12:05 ngày 11/02/2003

Chao cac ban,
MiG-19 o Vietnam la kieu do TQ san xuat goi la JJ-6, tham chien kha thanh cong goi ban mot tam anh cua Mig-19 o Bao Tang Khong Quan:
Va day la mot buc anh hoi chien tranh cua Trung doan 923 Khong quan Tiem kich
Nhung thong tin nay chac la khong vi pham phai khong MOD?

Thông tin về J6(F6) ở đây này
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-19.htm
Mig 19 không thành công lắm ở việt nam đâu, khi Vn có mig 19 thì cũng có mig 21 từ đầu năm 1967, khi đó không quân mỹ dã có nhiều máy bay tiêm tích có tên lửa hộ tống các phi đội ném bom như hải quân có F8 hộ tống A4, A6A, A7, Không quân có F4D hộ tống F105, nên Mig17, Mig19 ít tham chiến vì không chiến không hiệu quả với các loại tiêm tích, nhất là F4, đến tháng 3 năm 68 thì mỹ đã hạn chế ném bom miền bắc từ vĩ tuyến 20 trở ra rồi nên còn đâu mà không chiến. năm 1972 thì chỉ có mig 21 đánh thôi, Mig19 lúc đó có gần 1 trung đoàn nhưng không tham chiến. Trong các số liệu không chính thức của Mỹ trên Internet thì không thấy nói có bắn roi Mig 19

Lang tu Yen Thanh

De Tham khao:
SOURCE:
OSPREY COMBAT A I R C R A F T õ? 25
MiG-17 AND MiG-19 UNITS OF THE VIETNAM WAR
Istvcm Toperczer
=================================================
In February 1969 North Vietnam was enjoying a four-month break from American air raids. In an effort to boost the VPAF's fighter strength, defence chiefs decided to create the 925th Fighter Regiment (TrungDoan Khong Quan Tiem Kich925) and equip it with MiG-17Fs and Shenyang J-6s (Chinese-built MiG- 19s). Nguyen Quang Trung was appointed as the regiment's CO, and the unit was established at Yen Bai.
This facility had just one runway, with electricity provided by generators. The unit's preparation for battle was hampered by fuel shortages and a high hardware attrition rate caused by humid climate, poor maintenance and inadequate logistical support. Pilots of the 925th came from Gia Lam, having first passed through Soviet flying schools, where they had been trained on the MiG-21. At Yen Bai, intense training produced nine combat-rated MiG-19 pilots by April 1969.
GREAT BATTLES OF MAY
By the spring of 1972, the MiG-19 pilots had matured into an effective element within the air defence system. And this was just as well, for compared with the Johnson administration's bombing campaigns of 1965-68, President Nixon's series of offensives were bigger affairs altogether. For example, as part Operation Freedom Train on 6 April 1972, US pilots flew no less than 106 raids on Quang Binh province alone. Four days later B-52s attacked Vinh. On 13 April they turned their attention to Thanh Hoa, and three days later B-52s and naval units pounded Hai Phong. VPAF commanders decided that its forces should take up position to the north of the 20th Parallel, and the 925th Fighter Regiment was duly tasked with defending North Vietnam's western and north-western airspace. Under Operation Pocket Money, at the beginning of May, Nixon announced the mining of the North's most important ports.
On the 8th of that month, when Operation Linebacker was launched, the 925th was told to mount a constant CAP over Yen Bai air base to protect the Thac Ba hydroelectric power station the 921st was to help by distracting the Americans. The plan involved the 925th having two flights of MiGs at opposite ends of Yen Bai. No 1 flight, towards the north, consisted of four MiG-19s flown by Nguyen Ngoc Tiep, Nguyen Due Tiem, Pham Hung Son and Nguyen Hong Son. No 2 flight patrolled further to the south, and was comprised of Nguyen Ngoc Tarn, Nguyen Thanh Long, Phung Van Quang and Nguyen Manh Tung.
The morning of the 8th saw radar units detect four aircraft 35 kms south-west of Moc Chau, heading for Yen Bai at an altitude of 5000 m. Two MiG-21s from the 921st took off at 0840 hrs and headed towards Tuyen Quang. Seven minutes later No 1 flight also took to the air. The quartet of MiG-19s broke through cloud cover at between 1000-1200 m, and turned to port. By 0852 hrs they were at 4000 m. Pham Hung Son then spotted the Americans at 40° to his right, some six kilometres away, and at an altitude of 4000 m. He reported this to the MiG-21 flight. Nguyen Ngoc Tiep also radioed that he had spotted four F-4s. The American crews then saw that they had company, and launched a series of AAMs which all missed. Nguyen Ngoc Tiep ordered everyone to attack. The Phantom IIs split into pairs, and Nguyen Ngoc Tiep and Nguyen Due Tiem went after the jets that broke to the left and Pham Hung Son and Nguyen Hong Son chased the pair that went right.
As Nguyen Due Tiem pursued the F-4s, he noticed that missiles were coming at him from another Phantom II hard manoeuvring got him out of trouble. Nguyen Ngoc Tiep stuck to his F-4 as it dived to 1500 m and tried to escape with a left turn. He increased his speed and opened up with his cannons, only to miss as the target flew into cloud. Nguyen Ngoc Tiep then turned to the right, and something else took his attention - two F-4s at 2000 m. One tried to get into cloud but the Vietnamese pilot fired his cannon and reported scoring numerous hits. Tiep stated that the F-4 went down, but USAF records do not corroborate his claim. Another Phantom II chased by Pham Hung Son and Nguyen Hong Son descended quickly to 1500 m, and the lead MiG pilot fired at it in vain. The American pilot then climbed to 2000 m, followed by Son, and the pair vanished into cloud.
During the confusion of battle, Nguyen Hong Son tried to drop his fuel tanks but pulled the wrong lever. The brake chute deployed instead, and it was instantly ripped away. At the same time Nguyen Ngoc Tiep thought he saw an American pilot ejecting. Eventually Nguyen Hong Son managed to get rid of his fuel tanks, only to see he was being lined up by an AAM. He only escaped thanks to a sudden dive. His attacker followed him, but because of his greater speed he overran the MiG-19, and it was Nguyen Hong Son who now became the hunter. The Phantom II flew into a cloud, but Nguyen Hong Son pressed on, and when they had closed to within 500 m of each other he fired again. Son noticed flames streaming from the back of the Phantom II, but broke off his attack when he spotted a mountain looming large in front of him. He made it safely back to Yen Bai.
Nguyen Ngoc Tiep was now down to his last 1100 litres of fuel, but he remained on station until two MiG-19s arrived to take over from him. By 0916 hrs all the 'Farmers' were safely back at base.
The Vietnamese constantly analysed their enemy's tactics with the help of information provided by their own pilots or gleaned through interrogation of captured American airmen. The VPAF had soon realised that US fighters avoided turning with the agile MiG-17s and MiG-19s, and instead placed great emphasis on quickly gaining or losing height. Their aircraft entered combat with the leader and wingman well spaced, as this formation required less concentration to maintain position, and allowed pilots to pay more attention on visually spotting MiGs trying to sneak up on them. When facing a lone MiG, US crews would work together to ensure a kill, and when meeting a pair of MiGs, they would invariably go after the wingman. If encountering a larger formation, they would separate and engage individual MiGs in pairs.
Besides mining the waters of Hai Phong and other ports, the Americans also targeted the airfields of Vinh, Tho Xuan, Hoa Lac, Yen Bai and Na San during the month of May. On the 9th, 200 aircraft were launched against these bases, as well as the major roads around Hanoi and Hai Phong. These attacks were anticipated, and the strength of the four fighter regiments was concentrated on trying to beat them off. On 10 May US raiders hit Hai Phong, Bac Ninh, Pha Lai, Son Dong and Luc Ngan. While some jets attacked north of Hanoi, others kept a close watch on the bases at Noi Bai, Hoa Lac and Kep.
Two MiG-21 s of the 921st scrambled from Noi Bai at 0944 hrs and headed for Tuyen Quang in an effort to distract the attention of patrolling American fighters away from the MiG-19s of the 925th's No 1 flight. Despite this ruse, 'Farmer' pilots Nguyen Ngoc Tiep and Nguyen Due Tiem found themselves in action within seconds of taking off, chasing enemy aircraft and firing their cannons, but failing to make any impression on their enemies.
Fifteen minutes later, squadronmate Pham Hung Son enjoyed much greater success when fired his cannons at an F-4E some 2000 m in front of him. The Phantom II was hit hard, and Son pressed home his attack, firing again from 300 m. F-4E 67-0386 of the 58th TFS/432nd TRW broke in two, killing its crew, Capts J L Harris (pilot) and D E Wilkinson (WSO). Moments later Son's wingman, Nguyen Hong Son, was hit by a missile (possibly a SAM) over La Mount, in Tuyen Quang province. He ejected, but later died of his injuries.
No US claims against MiG-19s were made on this day, although Maj Barton P Crews and Capt Keith W Jones (flying F-4D 66-7463) of the 13th TFS/432nd TRW had been awarded a MiG-19 kill 48 hours earlier - conversely, no VPAF losses were recorded on the 8th!
The encounter on 10 May had lasted just 20 minutes, yet the MiG pilots were already running low on fuel. No 2 flight was duly scrambled so that it pilots could provide cover while No 1 landed. Nguyen Due Tiem had completely run out of fuel by the time he touched down, and having approached too fast from a height of 1600 m, he overshot. His MiG was badly damaged, but he was safe.
Nguyen Ngoc Tiep and Pham Hung Son were also on their approach, landing gear extended, when more F-4s appeared. Pham Hung Son retracted his undercarriage and covered his leader while the latter pilot landed, before he, too, had a chance to get back down. No 2 flight had also found itself in a scrap moments after take-off, Nguyen Manh Tung firing twice at F-4D 65-0784 of the 555th TFS/432nd TRW. This particular machine was being flown by Maj Robert Lodge and Capt Roger Locher, who, minutes earlier, had claimed a MiG-21 kill - this was their third victory (all scored in 65-0784) since February. The tables were turned on this occasion, however, for the Phantom II was literally blown out of the sky. Only Capt Locher survived, the WSO being recovered by a Combat SAR helicopter.
Phung Van Quang also attacked another F-4, firing three times, but he failed to score any hits. No 2 flight's encounter took place over an 18-minute period, and even though US fighters were still in the immediate area, the MiG pilots were told to land due to their rapidly dwindling reserves of fuel. Nguyen Ngoc Tam touched down safely, but Phung Van Quang overran by 50 m without harming himself, or damaging his aeroplane. Nguyen Manh Tung left his landing too late, however, running out of fuel on his approach. Having descended from a height of 1400 m, he came down too fast and over-ran the end of the runway. Tung's MiG turned over and exploded, killing him instantly. Only Nguyen Thanh Long was now still airborne, and just as he was about to land a warning crackled over his radio telling him that there were F-4s on his tail. He turned away, and luckily for him so did the Americans, who headed home.
By 1047 hrs the fight was over. The eight North Vietnamese pilots from the 925th had fired off 1050 rounds of 30 mm ammunition, and had claimed two USAF Phantom IIs. Only one MiG-19 had been shot down, although two pilots and two aircraft had been lost.
In the second half of May 1972, encounters with the Americans became increasingly fierce, and with enemy aircraft reguarly attacking Yen Bai, elements of the 925th had to be relocated to Gia Lam.
The war diary of the regiment during this frenetic period was filled with some victories, but also many losses. For example, on 12 May four MiG-19s again clashed with a flight of F-4Ds from the 555th TFS/432nd TRW, and a solitary MiG-19 went down.
During this stage of the conflict, VPAF pilots were usually outnumbered when they engaged the enemy, and this was very much the case on 18 May. In the morning, four MiG-19s had downed F-4D 66-7612 of the 421st TFS/366th TFW (names and fate of the crew unknown) over Noi Bai, but that afternoon, two MiGs had attacked a formation of twelve Midwaybased F-4Bs over Kep. Both jets had been quickly despatched by Sidewinders fired from two VF-161 Phantom IIs, killing the Vietnamese pilots. And on 23 May, four MiG-19s of No 1 flight took on 16 F-4Es from the 35th TFS/366th TFW over Yen Bai. Pham Hung Son and Nguyen Hung Son each claimed one kill (no USAF losses were recorded), while Nguyen Due Tiem fell to friendly fire in the shape of a SAM fired by the ADF. The pilot managed to eject. The 35th TFS cre***ed one of its crews with a single MiG-19 kill on this day. Vietnamese SAMs claimed yet another VPAF MiG-19 on 2 June, and this time the pilot was not so lucky. Four jets had been scrambled from Gia Lam after F-4s were spotted over Kep. In the ensuing engagement, the battling fighters drifted over Bac Giang, and the flight leader's MiG-19 was hit, was killing him instantly. The USAF cre***ed the demise of this 'Farmer' to Maj Philip Handley and ILt John Smallwood of the 58th TFS/432nd TRW, flying F-4E 67-210 - the crew claimed it as a guns kill Both 'friendly' fire losses were caused by a lack of communication between ADF anti-aircraft batteries on the ground and the VPAF fighters overhead. Vietnamese ground units had been using old Chinese-made radar fitted with the 'Kremnij /'system, whilst the MiG-19s and SAM units relied on more modern, Russian-made, 'Kremnij2'equipment. The interface between the two systems proved to be very poor in the heat ofbattle, resulting in the demise of two MiG-19s and the death of a highlytrained
fast jet pilot.
In July and August, the 925th failed to score any further kills, but conversely did not lose any pilots in combat. In September and October, however, two American aircraft were reportedly downed in three encounters, although no details pertaining to these claims have emerged.
The VPAF has admitted the loss of a further three MiG-19s during these engagements, and the the USAF cre***ed its crews with four kills - on 2 September, 9 September (two kills) and 6 October. All four calims were by F-4D/E crews. With only a handful of the 54 MiG-19Ss (actually Chinese-built Shenyang J-6s) supplied in 1968-69 still operational by the autumn of 1972, VPAF 'Farmer' operations quietly fizzled out. Kien An subsequently became the HQ for both the 921st and 925th Fighter Regiments, the latter being re-equipped with 24 Chinese-built MiG-19s (F-6s) in 1974. Following the arrival of these machines, the regiment manned a two aircraft alert flight at Yen Bai tasked with defending north-western Hanoi.
By May 1975 it was clear that military action was coming to an end in the region, even along the frontline in South Vietnam. Flying activity was reduced accordingly, and the MiG-19s were now equipped only with training weaponry. The reduction in flying did not prevent accidents from occurring, however. For example, while preparing for an air display to celebrate the North Vietnamese victory in 1975, two MiG-19s collided in mid-air over Noi Bai. After the tragedy, the runway was cleared of the wrecked aircraft and flying resumed just as if nothing had happened!
On 25 December 1975, the 370th 'Hai Van' Air Division (Su Doan Khong Quan 370) was established, incorporating the 925th Fighter Regiment, the MiG-19s of the 371st Air Division, a flight of ex-South Vietnamese air force Cessna U-17 Skywagons and South Vietnamese air control units. The 370th continued to fly a handful of surviving 'Farmers' as lead-in fighter trainers until the end of the 1970s.

Lâu lắm rồi em không vào VCF. VCF thay đổi nhiều quá, em không thích nghi được nên ...
=====
Hôm nay em chui vào hiệu sách xem quyển "Modern aircraft of the world" thì thấy nó khen máy bay Nga kinh đấy chứ.
Mig17 khi mới ra đời không có đối thủ cơ mà . Theo quyển này thì Mig 17 đã từng chiến đấu ở rất nhiều nơi nhưng thành công nhất là ở Việt Nam. Tốc độ không bằng F4 nhưng thời gian để lấy độ cao (? elevation cái gì đấy em không nhớ) và vòng luợn thì ăn đứt.
Trong thời gian đầu thì Mig19 rụng như sung (không phải tại đánh nhau ) mà là có gì đó không ổn định trong cấu trúc máy bay. Sau đó thì lỗi này được sửa, LX cho Tiệp Khắc và TQ sản xuất Mig19, TQ sản xuất số lượng Mig19 (TQ gọi là J-6 thì phải, Mig15 là J-5 nếu em nhớ không nhầm) gấp đôi LX.
Mig 21 thì nó nói không nhiều, và chả nhắc đến Việt Nam tẹo nào cả, chỉ nói Mig21 là máy bay được sử dụng rộng rãi nhất trên thế giới.
Tiếc là quyển này bìa cứng, gáy dầy có mua về cũng không scan cho các bác xem được


Diệt cường địch báo hoàng ân

Anh bây giờ không còn thời gian (hay già rồi) để mà quan tâm đến vũ khí và các loại máy bay nữa rồi. Thời còn học phổ thông anh say sưa sưu tầm các ảnh loại máy bay của các nước. Nếu Bác anh không là phi công có lẽ anh cũng chẳng say mê như vậy. Nhà Bà anh có cả một quyển khá dày viết về lịch sử Không quân VN do bên Không quân tặng trong đó có mô tả khá chi tiết các trận đánh. Bây giờ quyên hết rồi.
Từ hồi có vợ sở thích nó chuyển sang các thể loại dành cho người lớn (tạp chí, phim ảnh, sách hướng dẫn... )
VCF bây giờ đúng là không còn như xưa nữa rồi. Nhiều khi chỉ vào đọc một vài bài rồi ra.

một số hình ảnh và mô tả một số cuộc chiến của các Ace (Át chủ bài) Bắc Việt! Ace là từ chỉ người bắn hạ 5 máy bay địch trở lên.
http://www.acepilots.com/vietnam/viet_aces.html
Theo bài thì trong cuộc chiến Bắc Việt có 16 át, Mỹ có 2 át. Trong tháng 12/1966 khi quân Mỹ khinh địch không áp dụng các biện pháp đề phòng đã bị Mig bắn rơi 14 máy bay F105 không có F4 yểm trợ. Sau đó Mỹ bèn mở chiến dịch "Bolo" lấy F4 giả làm F105 mang bom để đón đánh Mig và hạ 6 chiếc Mig trong một ngày!
Được cavalry sửa chữa / chuyển vào 16:09 ngày 17/02/2003

Quả có thế, Triều tiên vẫn xài Mig 19, hôm rồi báo có đưa tin mig 19 của Triều tiên xâm phạm không phận hàn quốc, HQ cho F5 lên đuổi, F5 cũng là loại cũ chứ HQ mà cho F15 hay F16 lên đuổi thì có mà làm trò cười cho thiên hạ, thế mà mấy bố TT vẫn hung hăng tợn

Alo, cho em tham gia voi. Day day, ban ve cuoc chien VIET MY in 1975. That ra My khong thua dau. Li do don gian My bi thua cuoc trong cuoc chien day vi My theo dung nguyen tac, con dan ********* thi wa clever di, cho nen ko trach duoc. Ca'o van hoa`n ca'o ma li.

BUNNY