SALSA AND SOCIAL

This is Quang
Anton, I am quite busy to play here often recently, but some body told me about your topic. So I want to share some information with you in a short way.
Fisrtly, I want to say that I appreciate your presence in Vietnam thanks to Ly''''s help. I like your Salsa Style, you can be considered as a "talent" in Salsa and can stand at the same level of any famous salsero in the world like Martinez... And I want to learn from you, I still coming to your class no matter what happening, no matter what I am saying bellow:
- I don;t like the way you say "there is something rotten in the state of Vietnam". Yes, it may be right! But every States have something "rotten". It''''s my country''''s problem and our people is trying to solve, to improve. For foreigner like you, you better say nothing when you did nothing for our contry. If you like to see something defferent (even out of date, un-modernised...) then you come and stay. If you don''''t like or hate something you just go.
I met a tourist man in the street, unfortunately he dropped his leg in the dirty water when he was walking in the "trottoir". He got very angry and said something like "****ing this rotten country...". I just told him "get our of my country" if you don''''t like.
We want to appreciate the one who appriciates our culture, the one who understand and willing to help us. And we are always ready to learn what''''s "suitable" to our spirit, physics and culture. Sorry to say that there are some peopil who are running Vietnamese blood but they are "OVER" adapting exotic cultures. That''''s their choice, no one complain but that''''s absolutely not typical Vietnamese.
Ara invited me only Once, I refused. That''''s night I was really not in good mood. I just came for your (Anton) lesson. Moreover, when I don''''t feel comfortable with some one, I don;t dance with. Simply like you, I think. Count, how many girls did you dance with since you came to Hanoi?
Back to the first days when Ara in Hanoi and you did not come that time. Ara showed us something very new, something too high... then most of men scared to dance with her. Anyway, I invited her twice at that time.
Music: the music she playing is very "Pro" but it''''s not suitable for our level all the time. However people still try to adapt. They leave the floor not because they don;t like Ara music. They have to work or go to school 7AM next morning. In Saturday night, Salsa music can only play until 11PM. And most of Salseros just leave after that.
My last words: Every body like seeing you dance, every body know that you are an exellent dancer... BUt also a lot of people has the feeling that you are too high to touch (even Western people also told me that). So before complain, please try to discover the reason and understand. See what did you do then consider what people react to you.
Malik came here and his nice image remains in the mind of every body. He really danced with every body, every girls, even men... Your salsa skill is much better than him but.... I hope that you find the right way to enjoy life here and help us effectively in Salsa. As you are new in Hanoi, so you certainly consult some body for something but Listen with "2 ears" always.
Được dancefan sửa chữa / chuyển vào 11:52 ngày 26/12/2006

Quang, I think that you misinterpreted the word "rotten" used by Anton.
Rotten in your example of the foreigner is clearly an INSULT.
But in the context of what Anton said, and as far as I could understand, "Rotten" here should be understood as "there''s something VERY WRONG here". Anton didn''t mean to INSULT, he just tried to express his DEEP WORRY about our Salsa community. And believe me, when someone criticise us in a direct way, they alway want to HELP us (the critic is already a Help).
Personnaly, I find what Anton wrote was polite although he''s rather direct-speaking, .... like you Quang

Why do you know ? u''re Anton ???
rotten: Mục nát, thối rữa, rất đáng ghét, rất khó chịu, vô giá trị ... I only know these meaning !
And about the way to dance, as Anton said that he dance in the way he like, so why should us must to PLAY salsa in the way that he think is TRUE ( SOCIAL or something .... ). Like all of you, depend on your mood, some time you want to join a group, sometime you want stay alone, why should you must to smile when you don''t want ?
And for the last , Anton is a super dancer and I think we should consider his knowldge about technic is TRUE, everything else ... NOT SURE !

Initially, ?o there is something rotten in the state of Denmark? was said by Marcellus after he had seen the ghost of Hamlet?Ts farther- in the play named ?o Hamlet?. We can understand this sentence as there is something wrong. However, we still can interpret this statement with stronger meaning such as this following example:
"Even the Republicans are embarassed and feel endangered by this deal and they want to save themselves," she said. "There''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''s something rotten in Denmark, and they want to make sure the smell doesn''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''t attach to them." (_Newsday_, August 30, 1994)
When Marcellus said something wrong about the state of Denmark he meant something wrong, something dubious about the death of Hamlet?Ts farther. However, if based on what Anton criticized about Vietnam salsa, the latter meaning also somehow might be interpreted by the readers. Especially for those who do not read the ?oHamlet? like Quang, several others and I myself, of course, would interpret this directly through a literal sense rather than being able to understand the initial meaning of the quote. And this is inevitable.
However, fairly speaking, I highly appreciate both Anton and Quang who have brought about constructive opinions.
To Anton: I know that you mean to have positive comment about Vietnamese style and thanks for that.
?o Why should i adapt myself and accept it as vietnamese culture ? I do salsa the same way where ever i dance. Don''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''t you think that YOU salseros (vietnamese or not) should adapt to the salsa ??
But bet that you will feel no fun to stay in the floor and dance forever if there is noone to join with you, right?
Yupe! Definitely, we, salseros and salseras should adapt the salsa BUT it should be along with the Vietnamese style. Like you can not stand up in Cuba and yelled : ?o Hey!Why dont you dance salsa with New York stylê? or alternatively you can not see in common that people in US dance with total Cuban style or NY style. It can be a mixed. Or what I learn so far through academic studies is that in LA countries, people often wake up at mid-day. That?Ts their culture! You can not require them to get up so early like 6am or 7 am. Ours is also quite different which requires most of people to go home no later than midnight except for special events. Otherwise, those especially girls would have bad reputation. Quang is right when he said that most of us have to be at school at 7.15 am and work at about from 7.30 to 8 am. Then we can not stay later than midnight.
I myself like Ara music, confirmed since it insprires the creativity of the dancers but please understand that we leave home soon because of the above reason, not because of Arâ?Ts music.
Like an expert said, the best way to get along well with the place where you live is to adapt with the local culture. If you are just the commentator, there is nothing to say, but if you want to make great changes, you should wait for approriate time, or do something rather than just saying cuz ?o Actions speak louder than words?
P/S: Personally I always adore the way that you and Ara dance together and appreaciate the lessons that you guys have taught us so far. You are excellent teachers. Hoping to have chance to dance with you in the dancefloor.
Được det_tam_gai sửa chữa / chuyển vào 17:42 ngày 26/12/2006

1. I remembered the 2 or 3 first times Anton arrived and danced with Ara at Nutz and Sclub, rapidely many others dancers just ... ''dissappeard'' on the dance floor (completely understandable). I remarked that the following nights, Anton appeared much more discret and often dance with his partner in a corner... and people returned to the dance floor again.
2. I''ve known him for a very short time and talked to him twice. He''s very nice, a little shy (sic), polite and cultivated. He''s not aggressive at all.
3. Before saying the famous ".... something rotten in ...", he explained very clearly and in details which are "rotten" and do you find ANYTHING that is all "Mục nát, thối rữa, rất đáng ghét, rất khó chịu, vô giá tri..." etc? I don''t. That''s why I said " in the context of ...".
4. Finally, --> "there''s something rotten in the state of Danemark" is a famous saying in the Shakespare''s "Hamlet", I don''t fully understand its meaning but it doesn''t mean to INSULT at all, Anton quoted this saying but unfortunately, you and Quang misunderstood. I see that there''s a misunderstanding and I thought that I should tell, that''s all.
5. For other things, I have no comment

To Tatoutati:
1. You are positvely say so, but Anton has not raised his voice so far then you can not definitely jump into conclusion that 42values and Dancefance misundestood.
2. In the context, he is complaning about the Vietnam salsa community> so it is reasonable that most of people interprete as what values and Dancefan said
To Anton: It is advised that word and phrase with controverisally complex meanings, please avoid.
And I have no comment further too
Được det_tam_gai sửa chữa / chuyển vào 17:39 ngày 26/12/2006

Lỗi mạng! Mong mod xoá hộ với!
Được det_tam_gai sửa chữa / chuyển vào 18:16 ngày 26/12/2006

[/quote]
And about the way to dance, as Anton said that he dance in the way he like, so why should us must to PLAY salsa in the way that he think is TRUE ( SOCIAL or something .... ). Like all of you, depend on your mood, some time you want to join a group, sometime you want stay alone, why should you must to smile when you don''''t want ?
And for the last , Anton is a super dancer and I think we should consider his knowldge about technic is TRUE, everything else ... NOT SURE !
[/quote]
Haha, Valua! you can do everything that you want,no need similar to anyone. This is good.
However,this s not truth for all cases. To do this, you must be a talent person, if not, you will be called conservative mind .
as my reasoning, a person that called expert, he must have more social experience (just talk about Salsa field, no anything else) than anyone due to faced more thing than anyone. So you can reference his advise after that you can do thing that better for u.

I am Salsa absolute beginner, but What?Ts Salsa? As far as I know :
Salsa is feeling. Salsa is fun. Salsa is life!
Could you find any feeling, fun or life here, in Vietnam?
That?Ts all
Được Prebronzer sửa chữa / chuyển vào 20:15 ngày 26/12/2006

To DF: I am quite suprise when you discriminate somebody as foreigner and use that to critise them. If you don''''t like Anton to use the word "rotten" then just tell him so, don''''t need to bring this whole nationalism and foreign thing into the conversation.
I actually feel that Anton considers himself to be quite comfotable and safe among us to share what he thinks, what he did was like a member in the salsa family in Hanoi, and has nothing to do with degrading our nation or culture nor would he mean to do so.
I have the same comments with bringing Anton''''s "high-to-reach" dance style into the discussion as it is quite irrelevant to why Hanoi salseros go home early. I don''''t know why this should be mentioned here? Why the topic went from "Salsa as a Social dance" become "Anton is too high to reach" and all these comparation with Malik... Perhaps we should make a seperate topic for this (I am quite keen !!!).
Back to the main topic, I actually think Anton was very polite at his fist post, with my understanding it is exactly about 2 things: staying late for Salsa and being a sociable dancer which is all about fun, not technical.
Được phanyly sửa chữa / chuyển vào 13:15 ngày 27/12/2006