Sie und du

Sie und du - Part 1When to use which one
Even English-speakers who think they know German pretty well can fail to grasp the true significance of the two forms of "you" in German, Sie and du/ihr. There's an old joke about the translation problem: "Let's be on familiar terms. You can just call me 'you.'" (OK, it's not that funny unless you're really into translating or cultural linguistics.)
Part of the problem is the death of "thou" and the plural form of you (ye) in English. (In the southern US "y'all" fills in for "ye" - which later became singular.) English, with its one and only "you" for everyone and every degree of formality or informality, stands pretty much alone in the way it deals with "you." Except for English, all the Indo-European languages, including German, have both a formal "you" and a familiar "you." For some reason the familiar "thou" (and its "thee," "thine," and "thy" forms) died out in English but not in most other languages. In modern English we only run across "thou" in the Bible, Shakespeare, or in Quaker country. (For an interesting look at "thou" in English see Alan Firth's Linguist List "Thou and You" summary from the Quakers.)
The German familiar term du is actually related to "thou." This is more apparent once you become aware of the so-called "d<-->t/th shift" between German and English, seen in many word pairs such as Leder/leather and rot/red. (This fact is very useful in guessing the meaning of certain German cognates, or words similar to English.)
The real problem isn't just grammar; it is also a matter of culture. An English-speaker is not used to making the distinction between the familiar and formal you (except in the similar "Mr. Brown" vs. "Bob" situation). The German-speaker is very much aware of it and can become very uncomfortable when the du/Sie rules are broken. German-speakers tend to keep their distance longer with acquaintances than English-speakers do. German business colleagues who have worked together for years continue to address each other as Sie. It does not mean they are unfriendly, but they are maintaining the important German division between truly close friends and mere acquaintances.
So what are the rules? Every beginning German student learns that you use Sie for formal address (Wie heiYen Sie? - What is your name?) and du (plural, ihr) for the familiar (Hans, hast du deinen Mantel? - Hans, do you have your coat?). Sie is for strangers or people you don't know well. Only God, children, pets, close friends, and family members are addressed as du.
But things can get more complicated than that, even for Germans. For instance, what if you're being introduced to the German in-laws you've never met before? Should you use Sie or du? They're strangers but they're also family. The standard rule--and it's a good one--says always use Sie when in doubt. But your relatives might be offended by your stiff formality in this case. Using Sie when du is called for, can even convey anger or displeasure! But du used when Sie is appropriate can sound condescending - even insulting! ...Hilfe! Help! (Answer next week!)
Then there's the neue Rechtschreibung spelling reform that says you should no longer capitalize du or ihr in a letter. Yet many Germans continue to do so... either out of habit or stubbornness.
Below we have listed some helpful guidelines. (For more see the Friends and acquaintances chapter of The German Way.




When to use Sie, du or ihr
Use the formal Sie form when...


you are talking to adults you only know casually or have just met.

the situation would call for using "Mr." (Herr) or "Ms./Mrs." (Frau) in English. (Caution! See below about using first names.)

in a business situation unless specifically invited to do otherwise.

addressing colleagues at work (unless they are close friends of yours).

you have doubts about which form to use.
Use the du form when...


talking to family members or relatives.

talking with close, intimate friends.

addressing children under the age of about 12 and pet animals.

addressing God, as in a prayer.

you are invited by the German-speaker to do so.
õ? The old rules called for capitalizing all the familiar forms (du, dein, dir, ihr, euer, euch) in a letter. The new rules say not to. The formal Sie is always capitalized.
õ? Important! A first-name situation in English does NOT always equal the use of du in German! German-speakers are much less likely to be on a first-name basis as soon as English-speakers.
õ? On the Internet it is common to use the du form of address in email to strangers, but even here some Germans prefer the formal Sie.
õ? The younger the German-speaker, the more likely du will be used sooner than with older speakers. (But do not assume this always to be the case.)
NEXT > In Part 2 we take a closer look at du and Sie and offer a self-scoring QUIZ to test whether YOU understand "you" in German!





Some Common German/English Cognates
(d<-->t/th cognates in red)



alt = old

braun = brown

Bruder = brother

dein = thine (old English)

Erde = earth

Freund = friend / freundlich = friendly

grau = gray

Haus = house

Hund = hound (dog)

Kleider = clothes

lang = long

laut = loud

mein = mine/my

rot (roth) = red (old German spelling)

Seite = side (page)

Tag = day

trinken = to drink

Wagen = wagon (car/cart)

windig = windy

Sie und du - Part 2When to use which one
In Part One we discussed the importance of understanding the use of the two forms of "you" in German, Sie and du/ihr. As promised, we'll also have the answer to the in-law Sie vs. du question and offer a quiz to test your grasp of Sie vs. du, but first a few more details about the formal and familiar "you" in German.
The basic rules and some helpful guidelines were outlined in our introduction. Now we'll look more closely at the cultural ingredients. The cultural aspects of Sie vs. du are a prime example of how culture and language are inseparable.
Many foreign-language educators feel that the cultural aspects of language are just as important as vocabulary and grammar. An interesting article by Helga H. DeLisle [1] of New Mexico State University discusses the Sie vs. du issue in an interesting connection. Without going into all the details, DeLisle's most important points are: (1) the German forms of address used by American professors and students when they interact is different from that used by professors and students in a university setting in Germany, and (2) there were valid cultural reasons for this.
Even though the American and the German professors and students were using the same language (German), because they were functioning in two different cultures, the usage of du and Sie was different! In Germany the professors and their students tend to use Sie plus the last name. Much less frequent is the use of du and the first name. Fairly rare is a third option: Sie and the FIRST name. (This is a hybrid form of address that has arisen in recent years and represents a compromise between the strict formality of Sie plus last name and the close familiarity of du plus first name.)
But no matter which form is used in Germany, there is always reciprocity--that is, if the professor uses du plus first name, then the students also use that form of address. It was the same for Sie plus last name or Sie plus first name. Reciprocity basically means that each party in a conversation is on equal footing and no one is being condescending or talking down to the other.
On the other hand, a survey of American universities revealed that Sie plus first name--rare in Germany--is the most common form used by US professors of German. Furthermore, it was common for the American professors to use Sie plus first name, but for the students to use Sie plus last name when addressing their professor. This US usage, unlike the German practice, violates the reciprocity rule. The author asks why this discrepancy exists... and comes up with a logical answer. Apparently, the American professors find that the Sie-plus-first-name form of address for students is better suited to the informality of American culture, without totally going to the du form, which would be too familiar, and give the students the wrong idea of what is correct in German. (But students and professors in a German setting would have a problem with the lack of reciprocity.)
Professor DeLisle further illustrates the importance of reciprocity and the importance of Sie vs. du in German by mentioning several examples in recent years in which Germans had been fined for using du in the wrong situation. The most expensive average fine--over $1,200--was for cases where a person had been found guilty of addressing a police officer as du!
Another article by Lana Rings [2] of the University of Texas, Arlington touches on a related issue: small talk and the way strangers interact in the German and American cultures. Going beyond the du and Sie issue, relatively easy to handle in such situations, Rings points out how Germans and Americans can misinterpret the opposite culture's ways of talking to strangers.
For instance, in dealing with sales people or cashiers, Americans do things differently than Germans. An American at a checkout stand (Kasse) might say something like, "Hi, how are you?" to the cashier. In the same situation, a German is more likely to say nothing at all. If an American has learned only the German phrase for "Hi, how are you?" ("Tag, wie geht's?") but not when it's appropriate, he or she knows just enough to be dangerous in a German-speaking country. (For more about German/American cultural differences, see Prof. Rings' home page at the Univ. of Texas.)
This lack of cultural knowledge can also lead to misunderstandings that interfere with communication. The German thinks the American is being too familiar and superficial. The American thinks the German is being aloof and unfriendly. They're both wrong because neither has learned the pragmatic aspects of the other's language... things that are found all too rarely in foreign-language textbooks and software.




Now to the "you're being introduced to the German in-laws" question from Part One. Should you use Sie or du? They're strangers but they're also family. Should you always use Sie when in doubt? Well, now is the time to remember the reciprocity principle mentioned earlier. How do the relatives address you? If they say Sie, then you say Sie. If they say du, then you should use the familiar form also. If possible, discuss the matter first with your spouse or the closest relative. In most cases, you'll find that the form of address will be du. - Just remember never to call your spouse Sie!

Vêrsteh ich jetzt nicht ? wozu das denn ?
Thu Ha
In meinem Kopf sind Spiegelscherben. Taumelnd stürz ich ins Verderben.
Zwischen Tod und ewig Leben.. muss es etwas Drittes geben.

Ich kann ẳberhaupt nichts verstehen !!!!
captain_lat

es ist so lang zu lesen, deshalb kann ich auch alles nicht verstehen.
Kannst du genauer fragen?
[blue]Geteilte Freude ist doppelte Freude, geteilter Schmerz ist halber Schmerz[blue]

Dazu kann ich etwas sagen:
siezen: alte Leute, Fremdeerwachsenen, Gescha"ftspartner, die Menschen, denen Mann oberfla"chlich bekannt ist.
duzen: Kinder, Freunde, in der Familie.
In Deutschland wird man mit Nachnamen: Herr oder Frau oder akademischen Titlel gesiezt.
Man wird mit Vornamen geduzt.
[blue]Geteilte Freude ist doppelte Freude, geteilter Schmerz ist halber Schmerz[blue]